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How To: Variator Removal and Disassembly
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DandyDan
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Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1076
Location: Victoria, BC

PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: How To: Variator Removal and Disassembly Reply with quote

You may wish to get at your CV80's variator for a variety of reasons. You may want to replace the drivebelt, replace the entire variator or replace the rollers because they're worn or you'd like some lighter ones in there to boost your acceleration. Whatever your goal, this guide will show you how to get at your stock variator, remove it and crack it open so you can do any of the aforementioned tasks.

The first thing to do before you start tearing off the drivecover is to drain the gear oil. The rear clutch spins on a hollow shaft that is filled with this oil and it's kept in there by a seal on the drivecover. If you just unbolt the drivecover you'll spill oil everywhere as it drains out the end of this shaft (yes I learned the hard way Very Happy). So first off, remove the drainbolt as shown below (picture 1) and then drain the 180ml of oil out into a nice container (picture 2) and dispose of responsibly. Re-tighten the drainbolt to 20 Nm (14 ft-lbs).






Now you are okay to remove the drivecover. Your CV80 will likely still have the stock phillips (star) headed screws holding this cover on, so do what you can not to strip them out. A few of mine stripped out or broke and I managed to extract all but one of them (as you can see). It's a good idea to replace these screws with real bolts when you put this back together. So go ahead and remove the 9 screws that hold the cover on. Remember where each one goes because they are different lengths. The second picture below shows how I do it.





Now you should be looking at the inside of the drivecase (shown below):


The next step now is to remove the nut that is holding the variator on to the crankshaft. This can be a difficult step because the crankshaft spins so you can't use a normal wrench/socket. If you have access to an impact gun you can use this. Otherwise you'll need to go rent one (recommended) or you can make/buy a 'universal holder' tool (aka 'Variator tool'). A universal holder tool is essentially two prongs of adjustable width that you can fit into two holes to hold a spinning shaft still. Here is my homemade holder tool:


If you have an impact gun you can skip the next few steps. If you plan to use a variator tool then read on.

Normally it's easy to use a universal holder tool to remove a variator nut because most scooter variators have a couple holes in them which you can insert the variator tool's prongs into to hold the shaft still while you remove the nut (with a normal wrench). Unfortunately the CV80 variator does not have these holes, so in order to hold the crankshaft still you need to attack from the opposite (flywheel) side. I have heard that the variator is different in the updated CV80 models ('84-'87 in Canada, '85 and newer in the USA) so you might be able to use a universal holder tool directly on the variator with these scoots.

So to use your universal holder on the flywheel side you need to:
1) Remove the 3 screws/bolts holding the black fan cover on (blue circles below)
2) Remove the rear shock (2 bolts) and lower the scooter off the stand so that the suspension bottoms out. This gives you enough clearance to remove the black fan cover...otherwise it's pinched between the fan and the frame and you'll wind up mad and red faced trying to maneuver it off.
3) Remove the 3 screws holding the fan on and remove the fan (white circles below.


Now you can insert your variator tool into the cutouts in the flywheel (first picture below), while you use a normal wrench or socket on the variator nut (second picture below). This job is easier with two but it's quite manageable by yourself.




Okay so you got the nut off the variator (hopefully!). Those using the impact gun method should re-join the how-to now. The next step is to slide the various pieces off the crankshaft. You should remove the nut you just loosened, a normal washer, the funky kickstart washer, the outer plate, the drivebelt and then the inner variator and spacer. For your reference, I've shown the correct order of these parts below:


You want to stop yanking parts off the crankshaft once you get the parts shown above off. It is possible to remove the funky magnetic disk and subsequent parts shown below with a bit of effort, but you don't have to unless you're removing the starter motor. You should stop when your crankshaft looks like this:


Now you're ready to do whatever you set out intending to do. If you want to replace the drivebelt you can toss the new one in now. According to the service manual, a new belt is 17mm wide and a used belt is supposed to be replaced once it is worn down to 15.5mm wide.

If you want to replace the variator you can grab that and slide it back on the crankshaft. If you want to replace the rollers then you can now open up the variator and change those.

To open up the variator, first you need to pry off the outer cover (shown below). Don't let this step deter you because this cover pops off very easily.


Now you can simply lift apart the variator and gain access to the weights. Here is the variator shown completely disassembled:


So if you want to replace the rollers toss in a new set of 15x12mm rollers. The stock roller weight is 10.3g. If you're putting it lighter rollers to gain acceleration then I recommend rollers in the 4 - 6.0g range. My first attempt at tossing in lighter rollers to gain acceleration was with 7.8g rollers and it hardly made a difference. I kept going lighter until 4g rollers had me hitting the powerband of my aftermarket exhaust from about 10km/hr to 70km/hr. Once you've got your new rollers in place you can then reassemble the variator. The outer part that you pried off will simply click back on reassuringly.

Now you're ready to start reassembling things. Slide the spacer into your reassembled variator and then slide those onto the crankshaft. Then slip the drivebelt on and then slip the rest of the parts on in the correct order (shown 4 pictures up). If you have difficulty sliding the parts on, it's likely because the drivebelt is in the way. I find it's a lot easier to slide these parts on when you create a bit of slack by squeezing the rear clutch plates apart and letting the belt drop down in here (shown below):


Before you tighten the nut (using whatever method you loosened it with), you need to make absolutely sure that you've gotten the kickstarter washer started onto the splines. If you don't have it started onto the splines and you crank the nut tight, then it'll mash it onto the splines and damage them. This makes future variator removal very difficult and it could cause your kickstarter washer to strip out.

Once you've got all the parts on the crankshaft in the correct order and the nut has been handtightened as much as you can, now you can tighten the nut securely. You want to be very sure that you get this nut adequately tightened because they have a tendency to vibrate loose otherwise, which will leave you stranded. The correct torque for this nut is 30 Nm (22 ft-lbs).

Now you're set to bolt the drivecover back on. It's a good idea to replace those stock phillips screws with some real bolts of the same thread length. There is no torque specified for these bolts so just get them securely fastened. There's no need to be a hero here. If you used your variator tool on the flywheel then now is the time to also re-bolt your flywheel fan, fan cover and rear shock into place

The final step in this job is to re-fill the gear oil. You need to somehow get 180ml of fresh 10w30 oil into your rear gears. It's not quite as easy as you might think because the fill hole is almost horizontal, so using a funnel is difficult. I normally measure out 180ml of the correct oil in a beaker (shown below) and then use a syringe to squirt it in. However, I misplaced my syringe as I was preparing for this job so I did manage to use a small funnel. Once you got the oil in, replace the fill cap and then give yourself a pat on the back for a job well done. Cool



Last edited by DandyDan on Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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dave
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Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 55
Location: texas

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject: Oil pump Reply with quote

Pistol pump oilers work really well for getting the oil in tight spaces like that. Northern Tool has them (model #606 for $9.00) has many uses.
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roadcapDen
Beluga Legend


Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 404
Location: Burlington, ON CDA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xcellent tutorial DD!!

I used a rubber strap tool for oil filters to hold the variator from spinning, worked for me OK, course I didn't make a fancy tool like DD's.

Got a new scoot yet Dan?
I'm working on a couple of '70,s Indian Chief AMI-50 mopeds, 49cc 4-stroke.
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http://www.freewebs.com/roadcapden/cv80beluga.htm
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DandyDan
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Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1076
Location: Victoria, BC

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using a strap wrench on the variator would be a whole lot faster if you could get it to grip well enough. Taking off the fan shroud and using the flywheel is a major pain. I think the revised ('85 - '87) CV80's have a different variator that lets you use a tool like mine directly on the outer variator plate.

Regarding a new scooter, I sorta have one. My wife and I were planning to buy two scooters in the spring (a Vespa for her, a Ruckus for me). We went into a couple Vespa dealerships in Vancouver maybe a month ago just to browse but we ended up buying a new Black LX150. We wanted to buy a Vespa S in the spring for her, but this LX150 was marked down from $5500 down to $3995 because it was last years model. We figured we weren't going to find another deal like this and it didn't make sense to pay an extra $1500 for the S just to get the rectangle headlight so we bought it. They had don't pay for 6 months (no interest) so we signed up for that.

The scooter isn't on the road right now though because we're living in Whistler. The scooter is being stored in Vancouver in a relatives heated garage.

In the last few months, I've been a little more interested in Vespa's. I'm kicking myself for not taking a closer look at your Allstate Vespa when I was at your place. That sure is sweet machine. I read a book lately (Scooters: Red Eyes, White Walls, Blue Smoke) that has a lot of Vespa history.

Another thing I've been up to is creating a new website that has information on all Japanese scooters. I might add other brands later but I don't really know enough about Vespa to take a stab at that yet. You can check out my new site at: www.MotorscooterGuide.net

I've still got a lot of content to add but it sure be largely complete in the next couple weeks.
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roadcapDen
Beluga Legend


Joined: 19 Oct 2007
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Location: Burlington, ON CDA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WoW!, will be checking out your new page, gotta read up on that Honda Spree Laughing
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DandyDan
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Joined: 17 Oct 2007
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Location: Victoria, BC

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks....I don't have too much Spree info on there yet but I'm working on it. You probably know a lot more already than what I've got on that page. If you know some stuff that I should add, please let me know.

I need to finish writing the pages for most of Yamaha's scooters and then I'm going to go back and add more depth to the smaller Honda and Yamaha scooters that I'm more interested in. There's 30-40 scooters between Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki and I've written maybe 15-20 pages so far. I've done all the easy ones though, so I'm only cranking out 1 or 2 pages per day now.

I'm also going to have a forum on that site that does all Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki scooters. You can see it now at www.motorscooterguide.net/forum but I haven't designed anything yet so it looks terrible. Once I get all the scooter info up, I'll start working on the forum.


Last edited by DandyDan on Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dave
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Joined: 09 Nov 2008
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Location: texas

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:54 pm    Post subject: Dan's new website Reply with quote

Good job on the new website! Keep coming with the info, I am new to scootering and need all the info I can get from people who have actually worked on em. I think I may try taking the variator apart this weekend just to take a look at things in there. Your pictures are going to make it much easier. Keep up the good work!
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DandyDan
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck with the variator work....it's not too hard.
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317pablo
Junior Wrench


Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 9
Location: indiana

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: How To: Variator Removal and Disassembly Reply with quote

DandyDan wrote:
Before you tighten the nut (using whatever method you loosened it with), you need to make absolutely sure that you've gotten the kickstarter washer started onto the splines. If you don't have it started onto the splines and you crank the nut tight, then it'll mash it onto the splines and damage them. This makes future variator removal very difficult and it could cause your kickstarter washer to strip out


can you tell me little more i have a problem with my belt,after i replaced it and the scooter wont start it feels like the belt its too tight to start.
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meal
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Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 21
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great guide on this - thankyou so much for spending the time typing this up. You mentioned reading the cvt belt was 17mm wide in a service manual, would it be possible to confirm this?

For entertainments sake I thought I'd show you guys the shotty condition of my variator set up. I took it apart after having a whole lot of problems and returning the bike to the shop every couple of weeks. Seems like the boys don't do great work where I go.

Check out the rollers Wink they are worn into triangles and there is no working threads on any of the other parts. The outer variator is as worn as it is because it has been rubbing up against and gouging the case.


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DandyDan
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch! Those parts are in rough shape Shocked
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isanchez23
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Joined: 19 Oct 2010
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Location: Brownsville/ TX

PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I use any 10W30 gear oil, or dose it have to be for bikes??
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Jimmyshipp
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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:09 am    Post subject: Thanks for the detailed explanation Reply with quote

Dan, I will be tearing into one of my CA50s in a couple of weeks. Variator seems to be stuck in a rather high gearing, so I'll be putting your photos and explanations to work. Thanks for the excellent detail, clear pictures, and overall quality of your work. Most manuals and diagrams I read for cars and scooters leave a lot to be desired. Yours is far better than any I've seen! Do we have replacement weights for the CA50 in the aftermarket (non-Yamaha) world? I'm pretty sure my scoot with 4500 miles will need new weights.
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DandyDan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost certainly you will be able to get aftermarket weights for the CA50. Just remove the stock weights and measure them (in millimeters) and weigh them to learn what the stock weights are. Even heavily worn weights will be very close to the original weight because most of the weight is in the metal center.

Once you know the dimensions/weight needed, you can just start browsing the web. Scooter weights come in all sizes and any reasonable brand in the correct size/weight will do nicely.

Another alternative is to look in the service manual. It might not tell you the weight, but I would guess it will tell you the stock weight dimensions. You can download the official Service manual for the CA50 here:

http://www.motorscooterguide.net/manuals/Yamaha_CA50_Service_Manual.pdf
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MrEPinky
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Joined: 06 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My CV80 was a dog going up hills. Installed a new belt and I installed some Dr. Pulley 6.0g weights following your steps here. I even ended up making a variator tool just like yours using some door mender plates and bolts from Home Depot which totaled about $5. I also had to buy a flywheel removal tool off ebay for $15, but sure beats paying the shops $100/hour for the labor.

Such a difference! I took it out and zipped right up a hill near my house. Thanks for your steps, looking forward to going out for a longer ride when it stops raining.
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